So, being that new guy, I've messed up and now I am wondering how much work I need to do to fix it. I'm building a simple camping trailer with a small solar setup. I bought and ran some 12 gauge wire behind the walls so that when I got to the electrical part I would have wire ready to go. I didn't know about the issues of copper clad aluminum until today and when I checked the wire I bought that is what it is. The wires I ran are only for led lighting and a ceiling fan so they won't be running many amps. What I'm wondering is- for that sort of usage do I need to replace that wire or can I get away with using it in that application? Any help is appreciated. Thanks!
Thanks for bringing up the considerations on the devices and the noalox. I wish I had known more when I started...
Noalox isn't needed much anymore. A newer aluminum alloy is used now when making wire, that prevents corrosion at connections. They guy in the video talks about it, and I've heard it at work before as well.
I accidentally used some mis-marketed copper-clad aluminum ( 10awg, 200c silicone, InstallGear brand) for my solar panels, and my "solar box" internal wiring. It worked perfectly fine, no corrosion on charge controller or terminal contacts, no loose crimps or screw connections, and because it still met spec for my amp ratings, it never even got warm.
Aluminum wire is fantastic (light and cheap), as long as you keep it within it's rated limits. The electric companies use it for good reason.
From personal experience with 45 year old aluminum house wiring, just say no. I rented, but before you buy a house 40 to 50 years old, always verify that copper wiring was used. I see this "stop using noalox" video every time the subject comes up. Certainly there are electricians that use too much, but if you want the connection to last, make your own choice. Daly uses it to attach the high current cables, obviously they haven't watched the video.
Of course most of us aren't wiring houses, even if we were, we hopefully aren't using aluminum wiring. Battery terminals are not made of the special aluminum alloy, so a $3 tube seems prudent, others obviously feel different. The problem is real, it's well documented, there is actual scientific research, and just because someone makes a YouTube video doesn't mean they are an expert.
Will recently did a video on wiring materials, and he points out the big reason why not to use it.
Thermal expansion.
Aluminum expands at a different rate than brass or copper, and it expands MORE... so, when heat, either from the load, or environment, the aluminum will expand more than the connections, it will loosen the connections over time, and it WILL cause resistance issues.
In a climate controlled home, the issue is small, but still many houses burned down because of it.
In a mobile situation... no way would I allow aluminum wiring to remain.
when it comes to wiring one thing to watch out for is that many outlets/devices/etc. are actually labeled "copper only"!!
CCA is defineitely not copper so do you need to use noalox on each connection?
This is why I avoid the stuff as it just seems to cause questions that lead you down a rabbit hole.
I think the purpose behind cladding it in copper is to make it unnecessary to take the same precautions as with pure aluminum. From the Amazon and Ebay sellers perspective, it makes it easier to sell since many people won't notice or know to look for it.
So, being that new guy, I've messed up and now I am wondering how much work I need to do to fix it. I'm building a simple camping trailer with a small solar setup. I bought and ran some 12 gauge wire behind the walls so that when I got to the electrical part I would have wire ready to go. I didn't know about the issues of copper clad aluminum until today and when I checked the wire I bought that is what it is. The wires I ran are only for led lighting and a ceiling fan so they won't be running many amps. What I'm wondering is- for that sort of usage do I need to replace that wire or can I get away with using it in that application? Any help is appreciated. Thanks!
If access is still easy then by all means replace. Otherwise the hazard is extremely small for low power lights etc. Long term effect will be the light does not come on and you tighten the connection. If this is 12v wire, no concern.
I have a home that was built in the late '60s with aluminum wire (thanks to the copper shortage during Vietnam war) and it has been fine. Home has been in the family since new. Maybe two connections have had to get attention and the rest still works. Have a condo with aluminum to the range and dryer and both have had no issues in 40 years. OK mobile environment is a bit different but not that much for the wires.
So, being that new guy, I've messed up and now I am wondering how much work I need to do to fix it. I'm building a simple camping trailer with a small solar setup. I bought and ran some 12 gauge wire behind the walls so that when I got to the electrical part I would have wire ready to go. I didn't know about the issues of copper clad aluminum until today and when I checked the wire I bought that is what it is. The wires I ran are only for led lighting and a ceiling fan so they won't be running many amps. What I'm wondering is- for that sort of usage do I need to replace that wire or can I get away with using it in that application? Any help is appreciated. Thanks!
I also made the same mistake when running 12g cca. wire for my trailer conversions led lighting. Didn’t take notice until things were all buttoned up? Low power usage so I wasn’t going to take things all apart to replace them with pure copper.
I did replace a couple of them that will be using higher power (Bpap assy outlets and dc compressor fridge) with 10g pure copper wire though.
I don’t turn on all of the low wattage led lights at the same time, no need so I’m not real concerned about the 12g cca wiring.
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SharpEars
Re: When is it okay to use copper-clad aluminum (CCA) wire?
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Reply #125 on: December 13, , 02:40:43 pm »
I've seen some right s--tty bell-wire before now. Its sometimes copper clad steel, and you find out when you b----r up your precision dykes cutting it!
You are lucky it wasn't https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tinsel_wire which is truely the invention of the devil if you don't have the right crimps and tooling.
How did you identify it as CCA? Take a short offcut of the bare strands, scrape them and boil in washing soda in a glass beaker or jar. CCA will disintegrate, copper or copper clad steel will not. Copper clad steel is most easily identified with a small magnet.
1. There is another simple physical method as well: Solid copper's cross section is purplish red. CCA's cross section is silvery.
2. Usage: 2a) High frequency (conductor skin effect) & low current leads, e.g. network cable; 2b) Neutral wire of 3-phase motors (far less current than in the other 3 live wires).
3. Refund is the best.
You guys are making this way to complicated. The easiest test for CCA is as follows:
Take stranded wire, strip it, hold it over a lighter. If the strands warp and ultimately melt, it's CCA. If they keep their form as they get red, orange and ultimately almost white hot, they're copper (or CCS, which you can test for with a magnet).
Aluminum's melting point: 660.3° C (You can easily melt it with a good adjustable soldering iron set to 700°+ C)
Copper's melting point: ° C
Steel's melting point: ° C (That's why you need to also do the magnet test)
« Last Edit: December 13, , 02:44:46 pm by SharpEars »
Yansi
Re: When is it okay to use copper-clad aluminum (CCA) wire?
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Reply #126 on: December 13, , 04:20:20 pm »
When is it okay to use copper-clad aluminum (CCA) wire? It
NEVER is okay. Don't buy and/or use the cheap shit.
Monkeh
Re: When is it okay to use copper-clad aluminum (CCA) wire?
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Reply #127 on: December 13, , 04:23:45 pm »
When is it okay to use copper-clad aluminum (CCA) wire?
It NEVER is okay. Don't buy and/or use the cheap shit.
SeanB
Re: When is it okay to use copper-clad aluminum (CCA) wire?
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Reply #128 on: December 13, , 04:28:28 pm »
When is it okay to use copper-clad aluminum (CCA) wire?
It NEVER is okay. Don't buy and/or use the cheap shit.
When you are making 10 000 cheap microwave ovens a week and want to reduce the mass of the transformer by 1kg and the cost by $10.
Yansi
Re: When is it okay to use copper-clad aluminum (CCA) wire?
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Reply #129 on: December 13, , 04:36:13 pm »
But is the OP manufacturing a 1 000 000 series of microwave transformers?
Still its not an excuse to use cheap rubbish. The price difference is too low for the difference in durability, quality and reliability.
« Last Edit: December 13, , 04:38:10 pm by Yansi »
SharpEars
Re: When is it okay to use copper-clad aluminum (CCA) wire?
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Reply #130 on: December 13, , 04:39:02 pm »
When is it okay to use copper-clad aluminum (CCA) wire?
It NEVER is okay. Don't buy and/or use the cheap shit.
When you are making 10 000 cheap microwave ovens a week and want to reduce the mass of the transformer by 1kg and the cost by $10.
Don't give Som Tin Wong any ideas - oops, too late!
SharpEars
Re: When is it okay to use copper-clad aluminum (CCA) wire?
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Reply #131 on: December 13, , 04:39:54 pm »
When is it okay to use copper-clad aluminum (CCA) wire?
It NEVER is okay. Don't buy and/or use the cheap shit.
It is OK when you are a sucker buying on eBay too clueless to know what CCA is. Duh, I can use it with ma' truck's battereh to get mo' of dem Col' Crankin' Amps (CCA)!1!!11!1!
« Last Edit: December 13, , 04:41:46 pm by SharpEars »
Monkeh
Re: When is it okay to use copper-clad aluminum (CCA) wire?
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Reply #132 on: December 13, , 04:41:22 pm »
When is it okay to use copper-clad aluminum (CCA) wire?
It NEVER is okay. Don't buy and/or use the cheap shit.
When you are making 10 000 cheap microwave ovens a week and want to reduce the mass of the transformer by 1kg and the cost by $10.
Don't give Som Tin Wong any ideas - oops, too late!
Large transformers already use aluminium windings, and they have for a long, long time. This includes expensive, Western manufactured units. Why? ... because in some applications, the cost and weight difference makes it the better material.
Aluminium is used for busbars and wiring in many situations as well, where again, the cost and weight savings make it a better choice.
None of this is copper clad, though.
SharpEars
Re: When is it okay to use copper-clad aluminum (CCA) wire?
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Reply #133 on: December 13, , 04:42:53 pm »
When is it okay to use copper-clad aluminum (CCA) wire?
It NEVER is okay. Don't buy and/or use the cheap shit.
When you are making 10 000 cheap microwave ovens a week and want to reduce the mass of the transformer by 1kg and the cost by $10.
Don't give Som Tin Wong any ideas - oops, too late!
Large transformers already use aluminium windings, and they have for a long, long time. This includes expensive, Western manufactured units. Why? ... because in some applications, the cost and weight difference makes it the better material.
Aluminium is used for busbars and wiring in many situations as well, where again, the cost and weight savings make it a better choice.
Certainly for very low gauge (i.e., large diameter/volume) cable/bus bars where weight is most definitely a factor, this makes total sense. It also makes sense for heatsinks. For 18 AWG stranded wire, though... I think I'll pass...
Ian.M
Re: When is it okay to use copper-clad aluminum (CCA) wire?
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Reply #134 on: December 13, , 04:43:27 pm »
The power companies love it for overhead lines. Its got a better conductivity to weight ratio than copper, doesn't cause bimetallic corrosion of the high-tensile steel core and is *FAR* cheaper. Other uses where mass or moment of inertia isn't important, its far less appropriate and small diameters or worse stranded, are only for sell-your-sister crooked cheese-parers!
Electro Fan
Re: When is it okay to use copper-clad aluminum (CCA) wire?
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Reply #135 on: December 13, , 06:29:45 pm »
Is this solid copper or something else?
http://www.amazon.com/Elenco-Hook-Up-Colors-dispenser-WK-106/dp/B008L3QJAS
Yansi
Re: When is it okay to use copper-clad aluminum (CCA) wire?
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Reply #136 on: December 13, , 07:31:33 pm »
I'd rather spend some money for a proper wire from reputable manufacturer. CYA or LiFY (veeery nice) type one.
I am just not bothered using the cheap rubbish wires.
Jay112
Re: When is it okay to use copper-clad aluminum (CCA) wire?
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Reply #137 on: December 20, , 09:40:34 pm »
I wanted to thank everyone for the help. I just received confirmation that the seller sent a full refund to my credit card.