We have been using Seco Micro turbo cutters in CNC mills (Makino and Doosan) and Bridgeports with good success but they are only 2 edges per insert. I want to move into something like the Walter Valenite Blaxx because it has 4 edges per insert. Anyone using them or something similar? I like the helical insert, we mill lots of A-2, D-2, PHT and stainless.

We have been using Seco Micro turbo cutters in CNC mills (Makino and Doosan) and Bridgeports with good success but they are only 2 edges per insert. I want to move into something like the Walter Valenite Blaxx because it has 4 edges per insert. Anyone using them or something similar? I like the helical insert, we mill lots of A-2, D-2, PHT and stainless.

Looks kind of similar to the Iscar Helitang 490 and various Ingersoll cutters, which also have tangential inserts.

PM member Hertz recently posted a video showing the Iscar Helido 490 with good results in hardened steels >> http://www.practicalmachinist.com/vb/cnc-machining/like-boss-/. The inserts aren't tangential but they look very thick and are probably sufficiently robust.

Iscar recently came out with a Helido 690, which I'm guessing has similar edge geometry to the Helido 490 but uses triangular 2-sided inserts (6 edges) and is also a 90-degree mill. It appears to be new, so I haven't seen much info on it.

I'd talk to your Walter and Iscar reps to see what kind of performance guarantees they can provide. I'd be particularly interested in hearing what a rep has to say about the Helido 490 vs 690.

-Sol What diameter cutters do you need, and how much HP does your mill have? The smaller the cutter, the smaller the insert. The smaller the insert, the less depth of cut and feed rate you can use. You might want a cutter that has a wide range of diameters that all use the same insert so you have to stock fewer sizes and just a couple of grades.

As Orange Vise suggested, have repas from both companies bring in their cutters, run both on the same applicaton with THEIR recommended grades, speed and feed, see which one makes the most money for you based upon productivity. Measure that by this simple formula: How many good parts do you have done at the end of a day, and how much did each one cost to make in time, materials and tooling. check out Miltec freedom cutters .
I have a 3" cutter on my VMC that is a real work horse . 5 inserts . so a 10 pack is an even swap .
The PS power shear is great for lower HP machines , and I use the PN power neg on SS .
The same body will hold 4 sides ,8 side or round inserts . The 4&8 sided are the same price , so on some jobs I effectivly cut my insert cost in half .
Bob We run that Walter cutter. It's a beast. You get 4 edges and the inserts are twice as thick or more, and they are cheaper than the APKT style. The inserts are stronger and last longer, and they cutter closer to a square shoulder.

We run them in aluminum, but most of the insert grades are for steels and cast iron.

Iscar Helido 490 is pretty much the same thing.

The one big caveat is that these mills cannot ramp. That is not an issue for larger sizes, but I like to be able to ramp with the smaller ones (1" and 2"). The other thing is that the bodies are more expensive than your bread and butter APKT style. We just quoted a Walter 1" diameter 3xD long length mill (holds about 8 rows of inserts) and it was $ for the body.


Seco has the square 6. It looks like a nice option.

We run that Walter cutter. It's a beast. You get 4 edges and the inserts are twice as thick or more, and they are cheaper than the APKT style. The inserts are stronger and last longer, and they cutter closer to a square shoulder.

We run them in aluminum, but most of the insert grades are for steels and cast iron.

Iscar Helido 490 is pretty much the same thing.

The one big caveat is that these mills cannot ramp. That is not an issue for larger sizes, but I like to be able to ramp with the smaller ones (1" and 2"). The other thing is that the bodies are more expensive than your bread and butter APKT style. We just quoted a Walter 1" diameter 3xD long length mill (holds about 8 rows of inserts) and it was $ for the body.


Seco has the square 6. It looks like a nice option.

Sounds like you're using the Walter F with the LNGX xx inserts. It's a hell of a nice cutter, and I like having inserts for all materials. A couple other people here have those, and rave about the performance....though not the price.

Seco has the square 6. It looks like a nice option.

That does look like a nice cutter. The trigon shaped inserts limit the max DOC to .157" according to the brochure, but the advantage is that inserts have wiper geometry. The Iscar Helido 690 has larger DOC capability but without the wiper geometry.

I think I may pick up one of those Square 6 cutters for my long reach applications.

-Sol

You have to look at the total cost. The Walter gives us 400 minutes of life per edge in cast aluminum. We were getting 150 with a Sumitomo APKT style cutter and it only had 2 edges. When you use 200 or more inserts per month, that adds up real fast.

Next I want to try the Mitsubishi BXD for aluminum.

Is that 400 minutes of life with the uncoated WK10 grade, or the TiCN-coated WXN15 grade? Both seem equally sharp, I'm curious if the coated inserts 25% higher cost gets an equivalent or longer tool life. Talk to a Keyocera rep. and ask to to test their M-FOUR cutter. They have several grades and geometries to choose from and the inserts are about half the cost Seco. (Not knocking Square Six i love that cutter) Right now i am testing their M-Six against the Square Six and it is very comparable. Have not tried the M-FOUR but they offer sizes down to .625 diameter. If it will do what the rep said it would be worth looking at.

You have to look at the total cost. The Walter gives us 400 minutes of life per edge in cast aluminum. We were getting 150 with a Sumitomo APKT style cutter and it only had 2 edges. When you use 200 or more inserts per month, that adds up real fast.

Next I want to try the Mitsubishi BXD for aluminum.

At that kinda insert usage is it not time to look at PCD in aluminium and ditch carbide al together?

At that kinda insert usage is it not time to look at PCD in aluminium and ditch carbide al together?

I agree that it would be worth getting a pack of the uncoated inserts and have them coated with DLC (Diamond Like Coating.) If you had that along with a very high speed spindle, you could cut at unbelieveable speeds and reduce wear to the point where you'd probably be indexing inserts once a month. Cast aluminum is not really like wrought (extruded) aluminum. Even with a relatively low silicon content, cast aluminum is very abrasive.

We have used PCD tools. They aren't really made for roughing. You also need very rigid work holding and a decent wall thickness on the casting. If you have any vibration, it can chip the PCD. The other issue is silicon and other inclusions. If you hit an inclusion, it takes out your inserts and you have to reload the tool. At $150/insert and only one edge, that adds up real fast.

We use PCD more for surface finish or tight flatness or bore tolerances. PCD form tools are great for SAE ports and other tight tolerance bores. If we ran die castings, or some really high volume jobs, we would probably use it more.

We looked at PCD for the lathes, but our SMW chucks are limited to RPM. We are already running carbide at SFM with great tool life. Anything under 14" diameter we run at max RPM (). We just can't get the RPMs there for PCD to be worth it. We do use it to solve some chatter issues on thin parts.

Face Milling Vs. Shoulder Milling Vs. Profile Milling Vs. Fast Feed Milling: A Comprehensive Comparison and Tool Guide

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Introduction

Milling is a cornerstone of metalworking, enabling the creation of precise components across industries such as aerospace, automotive, and mold manufacturing. This article compares four prevalent milling techniques—face milling, shoulder milling, profile milling, and fast feed milling—focusing on their characteristics, applications, machining parameters, and suitable tooling. By exploring specific parameters and market-available tools, this guide aims to assist professionals in selecting the optimal milling strategy for their needs.

Face Milling

Definition and Principles

Face milling involves using a multi-tooth face mill to create flat surfaces, with the cutter’s rotational axis perpendicular to the workpiece. It excels in producing large, smooth surfaces with high efficiency.

Technical Characteristics

• Cutting Direction: Perpendicular to the workpiece surface, with cutting forces primarily along the Z-axis.
• Machining Efficiency: High material removal rate (MRR) due to large-diameter, multi-tooth cutters.
• Surface Quality: Achieves low surface roughness (Ra 0.8–3.2 μm), ideal for semi-finishing and finishing.
• Tool Types: Large-diameter face mills with milling inserts.

Typical Machining Parameters

Note: Parameters assume a 50mm diameter cutter with 4–6 teeth, wet cutting conditions.

Common Tools

• Indexable Inserts:
  • Sandvik Coromant: R245-12T3 (45° lead angle, versatile for steel and cast iron).
  • Kennametal: SEKNAFTN (square insert, robust for stainless steel).
  • MAPAL: SPKNEDR (with wiper edge, excellent surface finish for aluminum).
• Solid Carbide/Solid Tools:
  • Kennametal: KSSM 45° Face Mill (supports APKT inserts, ideal for roughing).
  • Tormach: 38mm Shell Mill (economical, suitable for steel and aluminum).
• Tool Features: Multi-tooth design for even cutting forces, supports high feed rates (fz 0.08–0.3 mm/z).

Applications

• Surface flattening of castings and forgings (e.g., machine tool beds).
• Large planar surfaces in wind turbine bases or ship components.
• Parts requiring high flatness and surface finish.

Advantages and Disadvantages

• Advantages: High efficiency, excellent surface quality, suitable for high-volume production.
• Disadvantages: Limited adaptability for complex geometries.

Shoulder Milling

Definition and Principles

Shoulder milling uses end mills or side-and-face cutters to machine vertical walls and horizontal bases, forming right-angle or near-right-angle features with high precision.

Technical Characteristics

• Cutting Direction: Multi-axial (X, Y, Z), suitable for right-angle geometries.
• Machining Precision: Tight tolerances (±0.01 mm) for right-angle features.
• Tool Rigidity Requirements: High due to significant cutting forces.
• Tool Types: Square-shoulder end mills or indexable milling cutters.

Typical Machining Parameters

Note: Parameters assume a 20mm diameter cutter with 4 teeth, dry or minimum quantity lubrication (MQL).

Contact us to discuss your requirements of Square Shoulder Milling Cutter. Our experienced sales team can help you identify the options that best suit your needs.

Common Tools

• Indexable Inserts:
  • Sandvik Coromant: R390-11T308 (90° lead angle, ideal for steel and stainless steel).
  • Kennametal: APKT11T308 (versatile for aluminum and steel).
  • Ingersoll: LNMT (high strength for tool steel).
• Solid Carbide End Mills:
  • Kennametal: HARVI I TE (4–6 flutes, high-performance for stainless steel and titanium).
  • MAPAL: OptiMill-Shoulder (3–5 flutes, suitable for steel and cast iron).
• Tool Features: 90° cutting angle, small width of cut (ae 0.2–2 mm), robust for high-precision features.

Applications

• Mold cavities with right-angle features.
• Slots, steps, or sidewalls in mechanical components.
• Gearbox housings requiring precise right-angle structures.

Advantages and Disadvantages

• Advantages: High precision, suitable for complex right-angle geometries.
• Disadvantages: High cutting forces, faster tool wear, moderate efficiency.

Profile Milling

Definition and Principles

Profile milling machines along the outer or inner contours of a workpiece, ideal for complex 3D surfaces or profiles. It relies on CNC programming for precise tool paths.

Technical Characteristics

• Cutting Path: Complex, requiring CAM software for accurate CNC programs.
• Machining Precision: High geometric accuracy (±0.005 mm), suitable for intricate surfaces.
• Machining Efficiency: Lower due to complex paths, ideal for low-volume production.
• Tool Types: Ball nose or radius end mills, indexable round inserts.

Typical Machining Parameters

Note: Parameters assume a 10mm ball nose cutter with 2–4 flutes, wet cutting, high-precision CNC.

Common Tools

• Indexable Inserts:
  • Sandvik Coromant: RCMT10T3MO (round insert, suitable for roughing curved surfaces).
  • Kennametal: RDMTMO (versatile for steel and titanium).
  • MAPAL: RDMX (high precision for aerospace materials).
• Solid Carbide End Mills:
  • Kennametal: HARVI III Ball Nose (2–4 flutes, ideal for titanium and composites).
  • Sandvik Coromant: CoroMill Plura Ball Nose (high precision for mold surfaces).
• Tool Features: Round or ball-shaped cutting edges reduce cutting forces, suitable for multi-axis machining.

Applications

• Aerospace components (e.g., turbine blades).
• Complex mold cavities and curved surfaces.
• Medical implants (e.g., orthopedic components).

Advantages and Disadvantages

• Advantages: High flexibility for complex 3D shapes, excellent precision.
• Disadvantages: Complex programming, lower efficiency, high tool and machine requirements.

Fast Feed Milling

Definition and Principles

Fast feed milling (also known as high-feed milling) uses high feed rates and shallow depths of cut to maximize material removal, ideal for roughing hard materials.

Technical Characteristics

• Cutting Parameters: High feed rates (Vf – mm/min), shallow depths (ap <1 mm).
• Machining Efficiency: Extremely high MRR (>100 cm³/min), suitable for high-volume roughing.
• Tool Life: Extended due to low cutting forces and optimized heat distribution.
• Tool Types: Dedicated high-feed milling cutters with specialized insert geometries.

Typical Machining Parameters

Note: Parameters assume a 25mm diameter cutter with 4 teeth, dry or MQL, high-power spindle.

Common Tools

• Indexable Inserts:
  • Sandvik Coromant: HNGX06 (small lead angle, optimized for high feed).
  • Kennametal: SDMT (robust for tool steel).
  • Ingersoll: HNGJ (low cutting forces for titanium).
• Solid Carbide End Mills:
  • Kennametal: Mill 4-11 High Feed (4 flutes, suitable for steel and stainless steel).
  • MAPAL: OptiMill-HighFeed (3–5 flutes, ideal for hard materials).
• Tool Features: Small lead angles (10–15°), chip-thinning effect, supports high feeds (fz 0.4–1.5 mm/z).

Applications

• Roughing of tool steel or titanium alloys.
• Rapid material removal in automotive molds or aerospace structures.
• High-efficiency roughing prior to finishing operations.

Advantages and Disadvantages

• Advantages: Exceptional efficiency, long tool life, ideal for hard materials.
• Disadvantages: Poor surface quality (Ra 6.3–12.5 μm), requires subsequent finishing.

Comparative Analysis

Technical Parameters

Machining Efficiency

• Material Removal Rate: Fast feed milling leads (>100 cm³/min), followed by face milling, with shoulder and profile milling lower.
• Processing Time: Fast feed milling is fastest, profile milling slowest.

Surface Quality and Precision

• Surface Roughness: Face milling best (Ra 0.8–3.2 μm), shoulder milling next, profile milling varies, fast feed milling poorest.
• Precision: Profile and shoulder milling highest, face milling moderate, fast feed milling for roughing.

Material and Geometry Suitability

• Materials:
  • Face Milling: Aluminum, steel, cast iron.
  • Shoulder Milling: Steel, stainless steel, tool steel.
  • Profile Milling: Titanium, composites, stainless steel.
  • Fast Feed Milling: Tool steel, titanium, cast iron.
• Geometries:
  • Face Milling: Large planes.
  • Shoulder Milling: Right-angle features, slots.
  • Profile Milling: Complex contours, 3D surfaces.
  • Fast Feed Milling: Any shape for roughing.

Cost and Equipment Requirements

• Tool Costs: Fast feed inserts are costly but long-lasting, profile milling tools wear quickly, face and shoulder milling moderate.
• Equipment: Profile milling requires high-precision CNC, fast feed milling needs high-power spindles, face and shoulder milling less demanding.

Tool Selection Guide

• Inserts: Cost-effective, indexable, ideal for high-volume production, versatile across materials.
• Solid Carbide End Mills: High precision, suited for small diameters or complex geometries, common in finishing.
• Considerations:
  • Inspect inserts for wear every 500– minutes of machining.
  • Use rigid tool holders for solid end mills to minimize vibration.
  • Select coatings based on material (e.g., TiAlN for high-temperature alloys, TiCN for steel).

Practical Selection Guidelines

• Large Planar Surfaces: Use face milling (Vc 150–600 m/min, ap 2–6 mm) with tools like R245-12T3 or KSSM face mills for efficiency and surface quality.
• Right-Angle Features: Opt for shoulder milling (fz 0.05–0.2 mm/z, ap 2–10 mm) with R390-11T308 inserts or HARVI I TE end mills for precision.
• Complex Contours: Choose profile milling (Vc 40–300 m/min, ae 0.05–0.5 mm) with RCMT10T3MO inserts or CoroMill Plura ball nose mills for flexibility.
• High-Efficiency Roughing: Select fast feed milling (Vf – mm/min, ap 0.2–1 mm) with HNGX06 inserts or Mill 4-11 high-feed mills for hard materials.

Case Studies

• Case 1: An automotive mold plant machining large mold planes used face milling (Vc 200 m/min, fz 0.15 mm/z, ap 4 mm) with R245-12T3 inserts, achieving high efficiency and flatness.
• Case 2: An aerospace facility machining turbine blade contours employed profile milling (Vc 60 m/min, fz 0.05 mm/z, ae 0.1 mm) with HARVI III ball nose mills, ensuring high precision.
• Case 3: A tool steel mold roughing operation used fast feed milling (Vf mm/min, ap 0.5 mm) with HNGX06 inserts, followed by shoulder milling with R390-11T308 for finishing.

Conclusion

Face milling excels in efficiency and surface quality for planar surfaces, shoulder milling offers precision for right-angle features, profile milling provides flexibility for complex contours, and fast feed milling maximizes roughing efficiency. Tool selection—whether indexable inserts (e.g., R245-12T3, HNGX06) or solid carbide end mills (e.g., HARVI III, Mill 4-11)—must align with material, geometry, and machine capabilities. Optimizing machining parameters enhances performance and cost-effectiveness. As intelligent and hybrid machining technologies advance, these milling techniques will continue to evolve, meeting demands for higher precision and productivity.

Are you interested in learning more about Carbide Cutting Tools? Contact us today to secure an expert consultation!

References

• Sandvik Coromant. (). Milling Technology Handbook.
• Kennametal. (). Solid Carbide End Milling Catalog.
• MAPAL. (). NeoMill Milling Program.
• ISO : Cutting Tool Data Representation and Exchange.
• Sandvik Coromant Milling Knowledge