When making an axial groove on the face of a component, it is important to choose the correct tools. The bending radius of the groove will determine the curve of the tool. Chip evacuation can be a problem in face grooving due to the curved groove. Chips jamming in the groove can lead to insert breakage, which jeopardizes process security.
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How to choose the correct face grooving tools
Diameter range (DAXIN and DAXX)
Choose the diameter range of the first cut (DAXIN and DAXX). Use the tool for the largest diameter that fits your groove. A tool for a larger diameter is less curved, and therefore more stiff and stable. It also improves chip control.
Cutting depth (CDX)
Always use a tool with the shortest possible cutting depth (CDX) to have maximum stability.
Insert width (CW)
Use the widest insert and tool that can be used for your groove. A wider holder has higher stiffness and provides more stability.
Hand of tool and type of curve
Choose the correct tool (A- or B-curve, right- or left-hand style) depending on your machine setup and workpiece rotation
- A-curve = for internal machining
- B-curve = for face grooving to boss
A-curve
B-curve
Tool holder recommendation
Depending on the face grooving operation, when choosing the correct tool holder, you need to consider the following:
- Choice of machine interface. Choose between a modular or solid solution, such as the QS™ shank
- 0° or 90° holder
- Right- or left-hand tool (this depends on your previous choices)
0° holder
90° holder
Right or left hand?
See if you need a right- or left-hand tool depending on your previous choices.
For best results in face grooving, it is recommended to use a system specifically designed for this operation, such as ®CoroCut QF. For more guidance on how to choose the correct face grooving tool, go to the specific product page or use the ®CoroPlus ToolGuide
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TailorMade tools
All standard face grooving tools are designed to cover a range of diameters of first cut. To get a tool optimized for the groove to be machined, the best option is to invest in a TailorMade tool holder. This blade is tailored for a certain first cut diameter and has an even shape that is stiffer compared to the standard comma-shaped blade (see image). The cutting depth and first cut diameter can be set exactly the way you need it, providing an optimized tool for face grooving.
Standard holder
Higher tool stiffness
TailorMade holder
How to choose the correct face grooving tools when boring
When making an axial groove in a component, it is important to choose the correct tool holder for the insert. The tool holder must be adapted to the bending radius of the groove and should therefore be curved. Chip control is essential in face grooving: the chip should be long enough not to get stuck in the groove, but short enough not to get stuck around tool or component.
Face grooving operations
Strategies
Roughing
Always start on the largest diameter (1), and work inwards. Continuous chipping is preferred at this step to avoid chip jamming in the narrow groove. Use pecking or micro stops if you need to have shorter chips. Further cuts (2, 3) should be 0.5‒0.8 × insert width. Since it is easier for chips to come out at this point, you can increase the feed by 30‒50%. Usually, you get shorter chips during these steps.
Deep grooves
When machining deep grooves (> 25 mm (0.984 inch)), it is recommended to do it in two steps:
- Machine a groove with 50% depth and required width (1, 2, 3)
- Machine to the required depth (4, 5, 6)
Roughing with side turning
p
Side turning provides better chip control and chip breaking. Start on the largest diameter, and machine towards the center. Do not feed from and against the shoulder, leave 0.2 mm (0.008 inch) steps between the passes. Side turning is a more stable process than cutting with axial feed. Use side turning to avoid vibration. Be aware that side turning is less productive than axial cuts due to the lower depth of cut (a)
Finishing
It is always difficult to achieve good chip control when finishing, especially when it comes to machining fillets. It is important to separate the material to be removed by making three cuts.
- Make the first axial cut close to the corner radius on the largest diameter
- Start the second cut on the largest diameter, and machine to the corner radius on the inner diameter
- The third cut finishes the inner diameter and the corner radius
Precision coolant
Use face grooving tools with precision coolant supply even if the maximum coolant pressure in your machine is low (7‒10 bar (102‒145 psi)). Precision coolant improves chip evacuation and decreases the risk of chip jamming in the groove, especially in deeper grooves. Use as high coolant pressure as possible, up to 80 bar (1,160 psi), to achieve better chip control and chip evacuation.
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I just hate asking questions like this, but I need to figure out a way to do this without going through so many inserts...
I've got a part that has a .500 wide groove, going from about .950 to .750, and then a .125 groove inside that going another .100 or so.
Using the same tool for rough and finish, I was getting about 10pcs each (give or take...) before the finish started to suffer with a tool-flo GP50-S4 insert, .094" wide. I overnight some new inserts (AT3 69, per his and the manufacturers suggestion), and the first part off the machine has the same bad finish that the previous inserts (which I only have one left of) gave me after 10 pieces or so.
I've got about 380 of these pieces left to do by Thursday, and it ain't goin' so hot...
I'm cutting at 300-500sfm and have tried between .003 and .006 feedrate, with anywhere from .002 to .006 finish allowance, flood coolant. New inserts are working no better than the old ones, Just got 4 pieces before the finish started to look bad....
Any advice/suggestions?
I just hate asking questions like this, but I need to figure out a way to do this without going through so many inserts...
I've got a part that has a .500 wide groove, going from about .950 to .750, and then a .125 groove inside that going another .100 or so.
Using the same tool for rough and finish, I was getting about 10pcs each (give or take...) before the finish started to suffer with a tool-flo GP50-S4 insert, .094" wide. I overnight some new inserts (AT3 69, per his and the manufacturers suggestion), and the first part off the machine has the same bad finish that the previous inserts (which I only have one left of) gave me after 10 pieces or so.
I've got about 380 of these pieces left to do by Thursday, and it ain't goin' so hot...
I'm cutting at 300-500sfm and have tried between .003 and .006 feedrate, with anywhere from .002 to .006 finish allowance, flood coolant. New inserts are working no better than the old ones, Just got 4 pieces before the finish started to look bad....
Any advice/suggestions?
Don't rough with the partoff.
I would like a little more info:
Any corner radius on the insert?
Pecking the rough, or just "hogging"?
What do the roughing chips look like?
Mfrs suggested SFM and load for the insert?
I'm sure you know that 'tis better to rough and finish with separate tools, but when you only got 1, you need to look at it differently. Imagine if you had only 1 tool to rough and finish OD turning, and you have mulitple dias.
I don't have a Tool-FLO catalog, and the box does not have any speed/feed recommendations.
The numbers on this new insert: RAT3, FLG-R AT3
Chips come off in fairly short curly strings
I'm going to increase the sfm a little and see if that helps, with this new insert, it looks like I'm getting a built up edge.
I'm feeding each groove pass in one cut. Tried feeds as high as .008, and while it did no damage to the tool, and roughed the groove out in a nice little hurry, it didn't help the problem either...
I second Stuart on the finish pass info.
I have found that a2 is usually easy to get a good finish, and not be too hard on good tools. I have used toolflo groove inserts in the past and was not impressed at all, went back to Ken. I used to do a face-groove job in hardened stainless, one Ken. edge would get me thru a whole set (16x), while a toolflo insert was iffy on one part. Might cut a little, then snap right off. I might have been using the wrong grade, (been about 8/9 years now) but it still left an impression.
The most important question was regarding the corner radii on the groover. I guess I should've stated that you may want to leave finish amount at least equal to the radii. Keep the rpm higher in the finish op and load light. That A2 should be pretty when finished. Still, at that number of parts, you can't afford a second rougher say with a seat that can hold at least .118 wide? Sandvik has great holders and inserts that wide with a .008R per corner. I used to hold . parallel in M7 rings with those inserts with a pretty finish...that was on partoff!
The reason I didn't answer the nose radius question is because I'm not sure. I was hoping those numbers told you something they weren't telling me :p It looks to be about a .005" Radius.
I've only cut a bit of A2 in the past, and never on a production level, and it always does come out very pretty and smooth. This is my first time turning a bunch of it, so I'm noticing issues that I hadn't noticed in the past.
I've got it cutting a bit better I think, but if I need to, I may have to turn it into a 2op job...
I probably should have ordered a second toolholder yesterday when I ordered the inserts, but I was hoping the new grade would "fix" my problems.
I got the PO for these parts Friday after 5pm, which left me with no time to get stuff ordered before Monday, and to arrive Tuesday. At this point it's too late to order any more stuff...parts are due Thursday.
Insert specs at http://www.toolflo.com/cats/Deep Grooving.pdf
Note the recommended speed range of 250-400 sfm.
According to their data the AT3 denotes AlTiN coating. Does anyone know if you'd run this dry on a turning insert like you would on an endmill with the same coating? Seems like you would if the coating has to get hot to do its thing.
Personally I'm not a big fan of top notch type inserts for grooves requiring multiple plunges because I've never been able to get much of a finish on the bottom of the groove unless the material was something like screw stock or where its really hard to get a bad finish. I'm kinda partial to Iscar multi-direction turning tools for any sort of wide grooving.
In any case, I'd leave more for finishing. What you're leaving now is just about the right amount for the tool to not be able to make up its mind whether to cut or just ride the surface. Think about how much positive rake it takes on an insert to be able to skim a .002 DOC off a turned surface without running into the cut 'n rub thing and an ugly finish. Not much positive rake on these inserts, so you need to make sure there's enough material left to make them take a cut.
According to their data the AT3 denotes AlTiN coating. Does anyone know if you'd run this dry on a turning insert like you would on an endmill with the same coating? Seems like you would if the coating has to get hot to do its thing..
yup run it dry, and maintain the feed rate as specified
Personally I'm not a big fan of top notch type inserts for grooves requiring multiple plunges because I've never been able to get much of a finish on the bottom of the groove unless the material was something like screw stock or where its really hard to get a bad finish. I'm kinda partial to Iscar multi-direction turning tools for any sort of wide grooving..
totally in agreement with metalmuncher here too
Sandvik has good ones too!
In any case, I'd leave more for finishing. What you're leaving now is just about the right amount for the tool to not be able to make up its mind whether to cut or just ride the surface. Think about how much positive rake it takes on an insert to be able to skim a .002 DOC off a turned surface without running into the cut 'n rub thing and an ugly finish. Not much positive rake on these inserts, so you need to make sure there's enough material left to make them take a cut.
All excellent advice Valiant ....Hope you took some notes
I'd leave .02 anyway.
I ended up omitting the groove (it's really just a smaller diameter in the back), and will finish it in a second operation
I tried running dry, but was having chip control issues, which led to a much worse finish. I left as much as .016 depth for the finish pass and still had similar issues. I suspect that this particular material might be a nasty batch, as I've been having some other, though far less severe tool life issues, and even with fresh tooling I'm not getting quite the finish I'd expect out of it.
I'll have to look into the other options for wide grooving though for the future, topnotches are quick and easy, and typically do a good job, but for certain applications (like this), I think there are probably better choices.